posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 1:39 AM by Endie

Defending the Horde

To tide us over the Christmas period, Edward Castranova posted a proclamation of damnatio memoriae upon those of us who play Horde characters in World of Warcraft, claiming - the provocative little tinker - that it is a morally loaded choice, which is revealing of the "personal integrity" of those who chose it.  As was no doubt intended, the comments poured in as they haven't done since Timothy Burke's Order 66 SWG post.

Anyhow, his arguments seem to amount to the following:

  • Orcs, trolls and undead are traditionally evil.  Blizzard cannot change their meaning
  • Orcs value warfare and power; humans (in-game) have children and charitable giving.
  • His three-year-old son was afraid of his undead character and the Undercity.  He makes clear that this was purely on the basis of appearances and imagery.  No children were exposed to cannibalism in the making of this post.
  • The MMO-uninitiated will tend to read into the avatar choices of public figures approval of the racially-defined activities of their avatars.

Re the last point, I agree.  Good point.  But that just means that people finding themselves in the quandary Castranova describes should "present" as nice Alliance types, and preferably not as naughty night-elf females.

Now, I am 100% behind Castranova when he talks about the reality and importance of ethical choices in the pursuit of research.  No positivist I!  It is refreshing - although not as uncommon as a decade ago - to find a professional academic brave enough to post on the possibility of objectively evil acts.  I think that he is quite right that moral choices can be made within a gamespace, whether that be in WoW or in Risk (both his own examples).

But I cannot help but think that Ted has chosen the wrong battlefield on which to fight.  In particular, I disagree with the idea that an author cannot divorce the moral framework in which his creations act from the traditional prejudices of others towards that group (I am deliberately not describing orcs or others as races in this case... that would be a cheap debating trick).  If Blizzard want to make Orcs into graphical shorthands for late dark-age anglosaxons, with the warrior-outlook of thegns, then that is their choice.  And the jarring effect of using the term orc, used almost as an explicit anthimeria, is a useful dramatic tool.  Without an author's ability to surprise us with unconventional representations, we would not have Drizzt Do'Urden, Worf, most vampires or a variety of other, equally horrible genre-fiction characters.  Tony Soprano: there's a better example.  Of course, it's a lazy tool, at times, and over-used.  You cannot watch a 1940s western or 1930s Tarzan movie without the "noble savage" character making an appearance.  But the fact is that authorial intent is king.  Damn you, Levi-Strauss!

As a geekish aside, I should also note that in the pen-and-paper D&D campaign I've run since the late 80's, orcs are no more evil than Visigoths or Suevi, and play much the same role.  And if any player wants to justify hacking whole villages of them to pieces because they were wicked little sprites in Tolkien, he'll be risking direct and immediate divine intervention.

Castranova charges that orcs value warfare and power; while humans have children and charitable giving.  We can ignore the fact that the Alliance's dwarves also value the former and lack the latter.  We can also ignore the fact that orcs, in fact, feature both offspring (in Orgrimmar's (presumably charitable) orphanage) and, in various missions, charitable acts.  Basically, what is suggested is that, in a dark-age (-ish) setting, having a group react to constant warfare and repeated invasion by elevating a warrior class to a position of honour and leadership is an evil act.  Looking at history, I see it rather as an inevitable and necessary survival trait.

As regards the cited evidence of Ted's kid being scared: I have my doubts as to the bearing this has on the case in point.  Wisdom may, indeed, spring forth from the mouths of babes and sucklings, but children find many things scary that are not in themselves evil.

Anyway, evil is not defined by the racial inevitabilities of culture and genetic predisposition.  The fact is that only thoughts and actions define the morality of the actor.  And there is absolutely no difference, frustratingly, between a tauren and an elf as regards their missions.  Nor between orcs and dwarves, or even the undead and humans.  The bulk of each involves killing vast numbers of the enemy, and if the undead smell a bit and sometimes eat their victims (post mortem) then that is not a moral decision: simply a matter of taste.

Comments

# re: Defending the Horde

Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:23 PM by Fargham
A solidly logical argument. Instead of dismissing counterpoints like Ted does because they'd ruin his argument, you adress them directly.

I'd like to add one more point - warlocks - generally considered an 'evil' term, especially because they consort with 'demonic' forces, are wholly welcomed in the Alliance. Would it not then, by Ted's argument nonetheless, be true that the Alliance supports evil acts? Or at least, by not acting against the warlocks in their midst be indifferent of them?

The addition of the child into the argument is simply a low means of argument and doesn't prove anything, except that he believes what his 3 year old thinks over his own facilities. Most 3 year olds don't have any comprehension of good or evil.

# re: Defending the Horde

Friday, May 19, 2006 4:53 PM by Endie
Ta for the positive comment.

You're right, of course, about the moral dubiety of not just warlocks (hadn't thought of that example!) but many of the acts of the alliance. I;m not really a WoW lorehead, but I have since discovered that they locked up the orcs in concentration camps.

Warlock are kinda glaring though, now you mention them. After all, they steal the souls of their victims as they die, in order to power their magic. Hmmm...

You'er also right that a 3-year-old has no real idea about good or evil. "Bad and good" behaviour are simply things that are punishable or rewardable at that age.

# re: Defending the Horde

Friday, May 19, 2006 6:46 PM by Harleybar
I agree with your arguements, but feel compelled to add one of my own...using the example of Humans in particular. The humans of Stormwind are lead by a puppet king controlled by the one of the most virulently evil and maniplative beings in the history of Azeroth (besides Sargerath and his minions of course)...Onyxia of the Black Dragonflight. At best you could ascribe the ever popular excuse "I was only following orders" to the human leadership (an excuse popular with the leadership of Nazi Germany as well). While the humans may not know who exactly it is that leads them they realize something is wrong, every human quest dealing at all with their military situation, from Duskwood to Redridge to Westfall, has their company level commanders in a state of near rebellion at the treatment they are recieving.
Take a moment to contrast this with the leadership of the Horde. While the races that comprise the Horde may be individually guilty of excesses of cruelty at times, these things happen in war. The fact is, Thrall is noble, as anyone who has read the backstory and the fanfiction would have to agree. His standing order to his commanders is to avoid provoking the Alliance, and he refuses to take advantage of the weak position the Alliance currently finds itself in. Additionally, he actively hunts down and exterminates Warlocks (RFC anyone?) and has been known to punish former commanders that are guilty of atrocities against the Allies.
So what we are left with is essentially a comparison of a state run by a being comparable to Sauron from the JRR Tolkien books to a state run by a being comparable to Kah'less from the Klingons of Star Trek fame. I'll go with the noble Orc warrior culture over the corrupt misguided Human hegemony anytime.

# re: Defending the Horde

Monday, May 22, 2006 2:25 PM by Endie
Whoah, you're waaay ahead of me on the lore element! That sounds a convincing set of arguments. I'd basically just gone with moral equivalence: I thought there was no real difference between the two political cultures. But it seems, from what you say, that there is a vast degree of differentiation to be made.

I like the Sauron/Klingon comparison, btw.

# re: Defending the Horde

Monday, September 11, 2006 10:00 PM by Moire
During the undead invasion of the human kingdom of Lordaeron(now the undead lands and the plaguelands), the human army turned on their weakened high elf allies and attempted to exterminate them.

As for the new plague the undead are designing, there is of course variation among the chemists creating it, but it strikes me that the ultimate goal of the queen is to create a disease that can be used to fight the scourge and act as a deterrent to the humans who are constantly invading them.

# re: Defending the Horde

Thursday, September 14, 2006 8:37 AM by Endie
That's another example, I suppose, of the fuzzy greyness of the morality involved. Biological weapons as deterrence: that's arguable from either direction. It's far more enjoyable than "kill the other races because they are not like us and eat babies".

# re: Defending the Horde

Friday, December 08, 2006 6:02 AM by Mark
I'd also like to defend the alliance. No one blames the orcs as a whole for their invasion of Azeroth because of demonic corruption, humans now have the luxury of that excuse because of onyxia. I hear alot of people call the alliance evil and opressive and that has some truth, as much as the horde is violent and warlike. In cycle of hatred both orcs and humans thought each other as uncivilized. I feel sorry for innocent alliance people when people call the alliance the bad ones as much as when somone ignorently says the horde is evil. Both sides were formed out of self defence (the new horde not the old demonic horde) Its a fantasy world but I still feel for em. I think both sides are sliding to corruption. The alliance is corrupt now for sure, the horde is letting people join that do extremely evil things, just as evil as the alliance. The forsaken are trying to destroy all life, and the blood elves enslaved a creature of the holy light. They are doing these for a noble end, preservation, but to what point do the means justify the ends? Thrall's heart is too big, he feels sorry for these people, although everyone else in the world has FORSAKEN THEM, does the horde want to be associated with this? When Thrall dies whats going to stop the orcs from becoming just like the forsaken, or even like humans! Some tauren are involved in some demonic worshiping cults in the world, while a small it shows they are capable of nasty things. At least these things bring horde morality down to humaan level, so alliance players don't have to feel as ashamed. From my meager knowledge of warcraft lore I say both sides are going down hell, and the burnning legion is licking their lips. The demons only have influence over worlds by minipulating somone who already has hatred in their heart, and alliance and horde have plenty of this. Anyone think there is any logic in my ramblings?

# re: Defending the Horde

Friday, December 08, 2006 12:00 PM by Endie
Umm.. are there any good guys? Next you're going to tell me that the gnomes eat baby kebabs.

Seriously, though, I suppose that this is an inevitable consequence of a game growing out of an RTS. Given that an RTS needs war, and that you have to have aggressive options for all playable races (otherwise always being the good guys defending against attacks is one-dimensional and predictable), I suppose that there had to be that facet to each faction. World of Peacecraft would have been a crap game.

# re: Defending the Horde

Friday, December 08, 2006 7:06 PM by Mark
LOL I meant to say to what point do the ends justify the means, I make that mistake alot. Somone disagree with my points so I can we can debate some more. Anyone who says a race is good I guarantee I make points that drag them down morally, anyone who says a race is evil I can make points that push them up morally, like pointing out they have a right to defend themselves. I find it bone chilling that horde tauren KILL dwarf archeologists because they are "disicrating" the earth. Mabye we can say both sides are good, just making misguided dsicisions. Is it possible for their to be an epic battle between good and good? I think its fun playing in a world where so many moral questions can be brought up, better than just killing evil orcs and undead, black and white crap.